[Danielle Balocca]: Hey Medford Bites listeners, don't forget to order your t-shirts for Medford's first Pride events. The first will be a flag raising at City Hall on June 2nd. Order your t-shirts by May 4th and all proceeds go to the Medford High School GSA. There's a link in today's show notes. Today's episode includes an interview with the owner of Swap It. I really enjoyed talking about affordable ways of accessing empowering stylists while also reducing waste. I hope you enjoy too. All right, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm wondering if we could start just by introducing yourself with your name and pronouns and a bit about who you are.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Sure. I'm Stephanie Johnson. I am she her. I am a mom of three, a wife, a homeowner. And then obviously, I own my small business swap it right here in Medford.
[Danielle Balocca]: Great. And so that's, you know, hopefully we're going to talk a little bit about today. But before we get to that, I want to ask you the question that I ask everybody, which is what your favorite place to eat is in Medford or what you like to eat there.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: So that is a tough one that I thought about because my store is actually surrounded by a bunch of restaurants because I'm in South Medford. But really, I do have to say that my favorite is real gusto in Medford Square. because well, not only is the food good, but also if you get the right table, you like sit along the water and it's like really pretty. It just makes you feel like you're not in like a city.
[Danielle Balocca]: That's definitely one of our favorites too. And really good, really good, uh, like sort of fast food, like faster food options and takeouts. Yeah. And I know that they've like, um, because of the theater down there, a lot of those restaurants have been doing like a theater menu. So like when you like, you know, to go there, but eat there before you go to a show, which has been really cool. Um, cool. Um, awesome. So I'm hoping that, uh, we could hear a little bit about your business that you mentioned. If you could tell us a little bit about what swap it is, what you do.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Sure. So Swabbit is a brick and mortar women plus thrift store, um, where we swap instead of shop. So it's a little bit different than traditional retail, traditional thrifting. We don't buy or consign clothing. What you do is you come in with clothes, um, we count them up and then you take home like the same amount of clothes. It's just, it's swapping. And that what that really does is help to, and kind of like the stress that people have when shopping that you probably don't even realize when you walk into a store, you're thinking about like a hundred different things at once. And that's kind of what like, you know, people that don't love shopping, that's what can kind of like get their heart going is like, you're looking at price tag. You're looking at the brand you're looking at, if it fits, if you like it, do you already own 80 of these? Like, do you really need it? Are you going to wear it? Does it fit right? Could you find something that fits a little bit better? You're in between sizes right now. Maybe you shouldn't invest in this piece because you think you're going to lose the weight or, you know, you're trying to get pregnant. You shouldn't invest in this piece because you're going to gain the weight and, and a million questions that you don't realize that's happening. And so much of that is eliminated with swapping. And then of course, there's also on the other end, there's the environmental piece. And when you swap, it not only gives your clothes a new home and a second life, but it also helps you not shop brand new, right? Like if you give something up, you're getting value back from that piece. And so it creates a market on both sides. It creates the people that are, you know, actually spending the time to get their clothes to a place where someone else can use them. And it also creates the market for people looking for that secondhand clothes.
[Danielle Balocca]: So I understand there's like an equal exchange of you're bringing in clothes that maybe you're done using or don't fit and sort of taking away hopefully like an equal amount of sort of what's fitting your body at the time or what maybe is appealing to you. And I'm a member of the Everything is Free Medford Facebook group. And I think this happens in a sort of a different way on there, but there's always people posting about like, you know, like just what you said, like I'm pregnant or like, you know, there's like, you know, certain seasons in our lives where like different, you know, different things are appealing. And that's, that sounds really cool and convenient. How does it work? So if I wanted to come to the store, like what would that, how would that work?
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: So our biggest sort of offering, our biggest value proposition is our membership. And it does exactly like what you said with the, everything is free groups and people do, um, you know, home swaps. We basically formalized this informal economy that's happening. So it's a membership. It's $147 for the entire year. You get unlimited swaps. So bring as much stuff as you want in at any time over the year and take, you know, as much stuff, the same amount of stuff home. And I said equal, but most people bring in way more than they take. I've been in a lot of people's closets and until I started this, I did not realize how much clothing people have. That's just a side note. But so, yeah, that's what it is. You get unlimited visits, you get unlimited swaps. So you can get, you know, you can go through so many cycles with that. You can go through all the seasons. You can go from, you know, being pregnant to after pregnancy body to back to feeling a little bit more normal. Um, you can go from being a stay at home mom to a working mom. You can go from. COVID when you never left your house to now, like, Oh, wait, maybe you leave every so often. And you're like, I haven't worn pants in two years. Right. So, um, we're doing a pants event because this week actually, because that's exactly what's happening. Everyone's like, Oh my God, I need pants. Like I got rid of all of them and I only have sweats and like now. And yeah, so that's how it works. Unlimited swaps, unlimited visits. And we also have not to add more, but we also offer personal styling because that is a big, big piece for people in their confidence and trying new stuff. Um, and so when you have somebody who has an eye and who's trained in how to put together a look, that's gonna, you know, look great on you. You are more willing to try things out. and you're just going to feel better, more confident about your day. And nevermind how much easier it is in the morning to throw on clothes because you already know what you're going to wear. Someone already created that outfit for you.
[Danielle Balocca]: And you said when you were describing the business, you said it's for women plus. Can you just can you explain what you mean by that?
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Sure. So it's really for anyone who wears women's clothing. So we've served the trans community. We've served people that consider themselves crossdressers, anyone that wants to wear women's clothing.
[Danielle Balocca]: great that what you're describing about what it feels like to go shopping and sort of eliminating some of those barriers. That's really relatable. I wonder if you have like a sort of like what drove you to this or if there's like a personal drive here.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Sure. So there definitely is, you know, like many businesses, we all created something to serve her like the challenges we were having in our own life. Mine was sort of like these like parallel paths that for me that ended up like kind of crossing over. So, you know, I don't know, maybe at this point, like 15 years ago or something, I was living in New York city and I was like rising in my career in a nonprofit. And I was really being seen more photographed more. I was meeting elected officials. I was meeting million dollar donors, all these things. And I was like, okay, like I look like, you know, not great. And I had such a limited budget, you know, it was like my first or second year in the city. And, you know, back then I was making, you know, 15 years ago I was making, I don't know, whatever, like nothing. And so I didn't really know how to like use, how to dress and how to like invest in pieces. And I just felt like I really needed to step up my game because I was meeting all these, you know, well-known people, photographed for, know, newspapers, magazines, whatever, I was just being seen more speaking in front of large groups, and I wasn't feeling confident in how I was looking. At the same time, I was so struggling with that. And then at the same time, I actually started this Greening Fellowship, where I was starting to really learn about, you know, environmental effects, harmful effects. And one thing that really, really stuck with me was the trash and our landfills. Because it's not just trash. And I'll speak to New York because that's kind of where I was learning about it at the time. But New York was trucking some of its trash like all the way to Michigan. So now we're talking about, you know, all the like fumes from the trucks that are like driving hundreds of miles. We're talking about the actual land that it takes up, everything that seeps into the ground. We're talking about wasted tax dollars because we're literally driving trash like across state lines. And just, there's like, it just go, like, just the trash thing, just like, it's the word, it snowballs, right? Like, it's not just like trash in a landfill that you're just like, ah, whatever. It's like a million other little effects, the greenhouse gases, everything. And then when you're throwing something away, somebody is also like creating something new, right? Like I threw away my T-shirt, so now I need a new T-shirt, because I'm not walking around topless, right? So I got really heavily into like the trash piece And on my clothing side, I ended up investing a ton of money to work with a New York City stylist. Me and my, he was my fiance at the time, my husband now, we were like, this is so important to you, to me, as I was feeling as a person, that we invested an incredible amount of money for us at the time, but we had a lot of conversations about it and just decided it was so important. And I was like, honestly, I was a little underwhelmed by the results. And I was like, I could do this better. And with the same learning about the trash, I was like, we could just do things differently. I was like, I don't want to have less clothes. I don't want to look less nice. I just want to do it differently. And I kind of realized, sorry, it's sort of a long story, but I kind of realized that one thing that worked for me a lot was borrowing clothes from friends. Like not only were they, you know, they had different stuff than I did and I could just borrow it and give it back when I was done with it. But they also like worked a little bit as like a second eye, a stylist, right? They were like, Oh, that looks good on you. I think I might have this. That looks good on you. And I'm like, I was saying before then I like really swap. It was just like a formalization of that process with real trained stylists who've gone to school. We have now a very specific swap it styling training. Cause we've, we've styled so many women that we understand what it's like to style someone for real life. We're not styling people for photo shoots or the red carpet. We're styling you to go to the supermarket or pick up your kids from school. Um, and so. And yeah, that's basically like how it all came together. I was struggling with these two pieces and I was like, I can figure out a solution to this and doesn't swap. It was the solution that I came up with.
[Danielle Balocca]: It's really brilliant. I'm hearing all these impacts, right, this sort of impact of the like interpersonal thing or like just the personal impact of how can I feel good about the way I look every day for a pretty low cost, right? And how is that having this sort of larger effect on, I think, our community, right? How are people connecting with each other around some of these things? And that environmental piece, which feels huge. So you said, so it sounds like, you know, there's a membership fee. Are there other ways that you generate income? It sounds like that, you know, $147 membership might not sustain a full business, but yeah.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So there is with the membership, there is eventually a break even point. So it will at some point, but we have, um, we have the membership, we do special events. So like I mentioned, like our all about pants event is coming up. We also will do. Um, personal style, like you could get a personal styling sessions and, um, we do swap passes. So if you just want to like, check it out for a day or a month, you can sort of purchase just like a little trial. And we do all that stuff kind of limited throughout the year because we really want to encourage people to become full members and really like buy in literally and figuratively to the idea of the clothing swap. And sometimes it takes more than one visit to really understand what it feels like, what it means in your life to just be able to like swap clothes. And then we also, when people aren't members and they come into the store, we also will sell pieces too. So if you're not a member and you don't have swaps, you can just purchase items. So we really have those three revenue streams.
[Danielle Balocca]: Is there a cost to the styling that's separate from the membership?
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Yes. So for members, it is $30 to spend an hour with a stylist and then you still get all your swaps included. So, you know, you're not, you're still not paying extra for clothes. You just are paying for the stylist expertise and time. Um, and then when we do a, like, so normally styling is just reserved for our members. But occasionally we'll do a promotion where we let non-members do styling, and then that's $50 to come in for an hour and work with our stylist.
[Danielle Balocca]: So it sounds really accessible, and I'm sure a lot less than what you were describing paying in New York. It sounds like a hefty price.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: One of our principles is to try to make it accessible for people. If you don't, then shopping secondhand isn't going to grow, and then it's not going to help people. It's not going to make the impact that it needs to make. Personal styling with the secondhand clothing is one of the most important pieces because a lot of times people will see something secondhand and they're like, oh, like, you know, I don't know if I think it looks great or it looks kind of dated or I don't know how to wear this, whatever. And that's where the stylist really comes in handy, right? They can make something look more updated. They can make something look more like you. They can give you ideas of different ways to style something, different ways to wear something. I mean, my entire wardrobe is from So if anyone has ever seen me out and about in the world and you like something I'm wearing, you will find something at Swap It that you will also love to wear.
[Danielle Balocca]: I wonder if people ever see their own clothes on other people after going to Swap It.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that has, I don't know if like out and about, but in the store, it's definitely happened where someone's been checking out and someone like browsing, they're like, oh my God, that was mine. And those moments are like the biggest, most meaningful moments. It can be really hard to let go of your clothes, right? Most of your clothes have meaning in some way or another, and it can be really hard to let go. But when you see somebody else who looks great in it and who's gonna enjoy it, it feels so much easier and so much lighter to let those pieces go. Because you're like, great, it actually is going to a home. We get so many people that are like, my stuff's too nice to throw in the clothing bin at the high school, right? And that is not necessarily true. true because like it's all you know it's all going someplace else but they feel like it's too nice to leave for just in a bin right so it feels so much better leaving it in a store where you see it on display and you know somebody's going to take it even though the stuff at the high school also the stuff that is good over there like it also goes to people it doesn't it doesn't wind up in the trash either so um
[Danielle Balocca]: Really interesting. Yeah. It sounds like that's been a great experience to see that exchange for people. Is there anything else that like has surprised you or is like a, has been, um, you know, a positive takeaway for you so far?
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, two of the biggest things, one, you kind of touched on before is like that community aspect. I was not expecting to create any kind of, like, it wasn't really a goal necessarily, like bring people together and create that, but The amount of connections that have been made in the store while people are swapping because you're in a place where you know that more or less people you know think like you or whatever and and it's a small space and we only let in no more than seven people at a time just for like a good experience. And so people chat with each other and, you know, someone sent me a message the other day being like, Oh, like there's this woman that I sort of knew that was there and we were chatting. We left as like friends and now we hang out. And how many people like got their friends to sign up as members. And now like, that's what they do together. Right. People have really limited time and energy. So if you can hang out with a friend and get some clothes at the same time, like do something productive and see your friends, it's, it's really a win-win. And so that's been like really, like really heartwarming to see. Um, and then the other piece is that in our store, actually, we don't do anything by size. So in a, when you go shopping anywhere else, you're like, oh, okay, here's size large. That's my section. I will shop in this little box of large stuff. We don't do that for a number of reasons. And, um, largely because sizing doesn't mean anything. All the different brands have all the different sizes. And if you're looking, looking at something from. 2017 versus 2021, like even those sizes are different, even in the same brand. So like, I just feel like it doesn't mean anything. We should start to understand our bodies, be able to hold something up and say, this looks like it might fit me. And I think that's really important just to get in touch with like, you know, what your own body is. But, and while yes, we definitely get haters on that. Some people really don't like that we don't do things by size. We have also opened up so many people to feeling less, not just restricted, but less like heavy from what size that they think they are, right? Like if somebody thinks that there are 12, maybe they feel good about that, maybe they don't. But if they weren't feeling good about that, the fact that now they're like shopping in the 10s and shopping in the 14s, it doesn't matter anymore. Because they're not like in this box of like, oh my goodness, I'm not happy being this size. And now I don't have to, I don't have to feel like I'm that size. Cause I'm not shopping that size. I'm looking at, I'm looking at everything and we've had it go both ways. We've had people that think they're extra larges and they literally leave in something a size small. And we've had tons of people that are smalls that will leave in size, extra larges. And everyone's like, I would never have seen this in a regular store because I wouldn't have gone to that section. And that has been super powerful for people. And I've heard from a lot of members now, once you get used to it, that they really like it. And it really like makes them feel good and let's go of a lot of their like body images, a lot of their body image issues. And that was also surprising to me, I think.
[Danielle Balocca]: It also seems like the lack of a price tag would have a similar impact. I've definitely been in a store where I've been like, well, I really like this thing, but this other thing is half the price, so I'm going to do that. And that sort of not having to put a price tag on your self-worth or how you want to look, that seems really powerful and empowering too.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Definitely. And not thinking about those, I'm going to do air quotes, but those investment pieces. that, you know, like, okay, I'm going to spend a lot of money on these pants because it's like an investment and they're going to last me forever. And then like two days later, you walk into like a chalkboard and they rip, you know, like it's just that kind of thinking is just, it's not swap it style. It's like, get what you like, get, what's going to make you feel good. And don't, don't have to be like, you don't have to be, um, you don't have to compromise, right? When you don't have to compromise on your budget, you don't have to compromise on your style and you don't have to compromise on your value. And that's sort of the point of swapping.
[Danielle Balocca]: Oh, and it sounds to you like the budget piece. You, if you're talking about a membership and maybe a few styling sessions, that's, that's your whole close budget minus, I assume, underwear for the year, right? And that's really useful, I think, for a lot of people.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Yep, exactly. That, that's the goal is to make it accessible and just to make it so great that everyone just wants to be a part of it. Right.
[Danielle Balocca]: Sure. You mentioned a couple of times the pants event. I wonder if you want to say any more about that.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Sure. So, um, I guess I don't know exactly when you release these, but we are doing a special All About Pants event for members and non-members. So if you're not a member, you're totally welcome to come to this on Friday, I guess tomorrow, Friday, April 8th, Saturday the 9th, April 12th and 13th, that Monday and Tuesday, maybe that's the 11th and 12th. Um, we're putting out all of our pants, basically our whole inventory of pants, and we will have stylists there to help you fit them. Pants is something you have to like. Commit to when you go to a store, cause you've got to try them on, you've got to be ready for it. So we were putting on this event so you could be in the right headspace and then literally have people that are going to help you find the right pants for your shape. Talk you through them. Once you put them on, maybe you find something that's a little bit different than you normally wear. So they can help you figure out what to like match with it on top. It's just really to help you kind of get back into get back into the habit of having to wear pants. It's not, it's not just zoom neck up anymore. Thank goodness.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, I was chuckling when you were talking about the sort of switch to, I think, pajama bottoms all the time to then going back out in the world with the end, you know, going back after COVID. But so I don't think this will be released before that event, but it sounds like you do events similar to this throughout the year. So it's good to hear kind of what those look like.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And I would say that definitely. So on our website, we have, it's a swappinggoodtime.com. And on the website, we have a button that says start for free. And if you hit that button, you can sign up to get a free swap. And so you can, a free swap means you can come to the store, bring one item, take one item home, just kind of see what we're about. And it also signs you up for our email list. So you will know when all of our good events are coming up, or hopefully you just come in, you love it, and you become a member.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you. That was one of my other questions was how to sort of keep in touch and how to hear about what you're doing. So it sounds like your website, do you have a social media presence at all?
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're very active on Facebook. And that is the same. It's at a swapping good time.
[Danielle Balocca]: I can put those in our show notes too, so people can access them easier. Is there anything else you want to make sure to mention about the business?
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think we covered a lot of ground.
[Danielle Balocca]: I really appreciate it. I had a little bit of an idea about what we would talk about, but this has really been much more expansive than I thought. I've learned a lot. And thank you so much for doing it.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me. And putting on this podcast, it's great to hear about all things Medford.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you. Thank you so much to Stephanie. Check out today's show notes for a link to swap its website, as well as links to the pride t-shirt fundraiser. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. And as always, if you have feedback about this episode or ideas for future episodes, you can email medfordpod at gmail.com. You can also subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Thanks so much for listening. Guys, what's the name of the podcast? Never Bites.
[OXiBcBOmF8o_SPEAKER_00]: Never Bites.
[Danielle Balocca]: Good job.